Welcome to Elevate with Elsner. Join us for inspiring conversations with individuals who have transformed their lives and are making a difference through the work that they do. And now, here's your host, Blake Elsner.

Welcome back to another episode of Elevate with Elsner, where we highlight people who aren't just thinking outside the box. They're turning the whole box into something brilliant. Today's guest is flipping the alphabet on its head, quite literally. Joining me is Dr. Aaron Wills, educator, principal, author, and all around advocate for joyful learning. With over 25 years in elementary education, Aaron's mission has always been clear. Make learning fun, inclusive, and unforgettable. He's the creative force behind We Mix Up Our ABCs, a vibrant, engaging children's book that turns the alphabet song into a playful practice tool. And this just isn't silly fun. This is literacy backed by brain science, rhyme, rhythm, and real world classroom experience. So if you've ever sung L-M-N-O-P a little too fast, or have little ones learning their letters, trust me, this one's for you. So without further ado, Dr. Aaron Willis, welcome to the show.

Blake Elsner

Hey, thanks so much. It's great to be here. That's such a kind introduction. I appreciate that. So yeah, it's a fun little book, Turn the Alphabet Upside Down. That's a good way of putting it.

Dr Aaron Wills 

Yeah.

A lot of fun.

So, so what got you into, you know, the, the interest into, you know, the education world? Cause obviously 25, 26 years ago or whatever, um, that, I guess it was probably longer than that. Yeah. Over 30 years ago, over 30 years. So what got you into that?

Uh, you know what? I was, uh, went through high school and that, and, uh, was bound for the business world, majored in business administration, and, uh, you know, going to go make my money in the business world. And I, I don't know, I always really, really liked being around young kids and, uh, just, just playing with kids and, uh, trying to make an impact and make a difference. And then when I had a professor in college, I actually had told me, Why are you going into business? If you like that, you should work with kids, become a teacher." I thought, well, I'm not going to be a teacher. I don't want to work for that salary. No, I'm not going to do that. So I ended up taking a job as a camp counselor one summer, way, way back when, day camp counselor. And oh my gosh, I had so much fun with the kids and just realized, okay, I think maybe this is my calling. So sure enough, I still got my business degree, but then went on and got a master's in elementary education and eventually went on into school administration as well. So, you know, once I, I guess, had that first experience working with, with kids and how much fun it was and how much of an impact you can make, it just really kind of drew me in. So I've been an educator ever since and no regrets whatsoever.

So yeah, pushing that a little, you know, farther after, you know, being in the, you know, I guess classroom as they call it, right. Um, you, you exited the classroom and your role as, as a school principal, um, came up and you just retired a year ago, but what, you know, what was the difference or how was that transition?

It was it was hard really you kind of don't know what you're getting into at first so as a classroom teacher I mean there's it's it is a hard hard job people don't realize you may understand because I know your wife is a first grade classroom teacher and I My last year of teaching I was a first grade teacher and I will say that is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, especially the beginning of the year. Oh my gosh, it is a I know there are a lot of people out there who have kids who are listening to this. And you think about your one or two or three kids, and you're trying to wrangle them and manage them and get them to do what you want. Well, imagine 20 of them, and it's just you. It is such a complicated job. It's such a challenging job. Because you're trying to do it through enthusiasm, through motivation, and to inspire them, and at the same time, keep them in line. So teaching is a hard, hard, hard job. The biggest transition going to administration for me which I realized the very first week, and it was, you know, you start in the summer, like in the middle of July, when there's almost nothing going on, is just how many audiences there are as an administrator. All of a sudden, you've got, you know, issues for students that you're dealing with. You've got parents that you're dealing with. You've got the upper administration at the district level that you're dealing with. You have community members who want this. You have businesses who kind of want a little angle in on the school for this. there are just so many audiences that school administrators are dealing with. It just comes at you from every direction. And I'll just never remember just feeling like I'm just turning around looking behind me and in front of me and above me and below me and things are just coming from everywhere. So I remember my mom said, well, what do you do when you go into work as a principal, especially in the summer when there's no school? I said, All you do is you just show up and the work finds you. It's like there's so many things you can never get it all done anyway. So you just kind of show up and let the work find you. But that's kind of what I did for 22 years as a school principal. You just let the work find you. But really, it's kind of those interruptions to your day that really is what the work is. It's helping people, it's serving kids, it's serving parents, helping teachers whenever you can. If you're into service, which I am, it's a great, great profession.

Yeah, it sounds, you know, it sounds like it and having to obviously come in every day. I'm sure no day was the same, right?

Uh, no, no, there are definitely some routines and some patterns, but you never know. You never know what to expect.

I guess that keeps it, keeps it interesting, right?

It's definitely interesting that there's never, there's not many dull moments.

Yeah, no, I know. I was the kid sometimes that you would get, get its name called over the intercom and Um, but you don't want to be that kid. And I, I, I figured that out quickly, so I didn't want to be in the principal's office. Actually, it's the Dean's office. I guess it was right. The principal. Yeah. They have the assistant principal do all that work, right?

Uh, sometimes we, we try to share, share everything. There you go. I like to be with the kids. The reason I got into administration was to get to be with those kids. Those are the kids who need you. Those are the kids who need guidance and direction, and they need support and love. And, you know, those were always kind of my favorite kids anyway, were the ones who just needed the most help. And, well, as the principal, you tend to spend most of your time with those kids. So it doesn't necessarily make for an easy job, but it is rewarding.

That that's, that's really awesome. So I've asked after that, you know, career, you're like. I gotta, I gotta write a book, right? Is that, is that kind of how it just, you're like, or, you know, did it go, Hey, why do kids mix up their ABCs? Why can, you know, what, what popped in your brain?

Well, I actually wrote the book before I retired. I actually was, uh, ended up being a little bit of a pandemic project for me. Uh, the book's been in my head for about 15 years prior to that. So there's another story that I would always read when as a principal, I would usually go in and read a book to the kindergartners and first graders at the beginning of the year. just to get to know them so they could get to know me, build a little relationship, try to learn their names. And there was a story that I would read. It was called The Gunny Wolf, and there's a little girl who sings the alphabet song, and the wolf chases her into the woods. Anyway, there's one page where the wolf is falling asleep as he's singing the alphabet song. Instead of saying L-M-N-O-P, he sings it M-M-N-A-P, because he's falling asleep, and then he starts snoring. And every time I read that page to kids, they always giggled and laughed. They thought it was funny that, oh, the wolf just got the alphabet mixed up. And so every year after year after year, you read that one page in the book and the kids would giggle. And it made me think, man, there is something about when the alphabet gets mixed up, kids think that's funny. And so I've just had that rolling around in my head literally every year for 15 years that I would read that story. I'm like, man, there's gotta be some way to incorporate this into something, first of all, fun that the kids will laugh and giggle at. And second of all, maybe it can turn into a learning activity and help some of these kids learn the letters of the alphabet. So anyway, yeah, so I wrote the book and I was going to wait till I retired, but I heard someone at some point say, don't wait till, don't think you're going to put everything off until you retire. You need to live life now and do it. So there was a little bit of time during the pandemic when there was nothing else going on. So I really kind of, uh, you know, while trying to run a school through the pandemic, which was another of the hardest things we've ever had to do, you know, wrote this book and started really learning about how do you publish a book? Because it's one thing to write a story. I mean, anybody could write a story. It's another thing to take it all the way through the publication. There are lots of paths for that. So I spent probably two years just lurking in online forums of children's book authors and self-publishing and traditional publishing and just trying to learn, learn, learn, how do you, how can you bring a book, how can you bring a project to the real world so that it is something that someone could purchase and read. So yeah, it was a fun project. Still learning a lot about that all the time. And now that I've retired from that, I'm I'm kind of giving myself at least a year or so. We'll see if I can make enough money to keep going to just do the fun, creative things that I've always loved to do. So I write books, I design board games, all kinds of just fun things. It's creative projects where I get to design and try to market and entrepreneurship and all those fun things that I enjoy that I haven't really been able to do. When you work as a school administrator, there just isn't a whole lot of time for anything else. It pretty much consumes your life 24 seven. So I'm really enjoying just get to do some of the fun things that I've always wanted to do. One of the nice things about education is you can retire young enough to still be able to do some of those things. So now I'm visiting schools and talking to kids and just getting to do all the fun parts of being a principal without having to do the hard parts, you know, have the big school assemblies and, you know, reading stories with kids and all that, all that good stuff. So really enjoying that a lot.

Yeah, that's really cool. And actually how we connected so everybody listening can can find out my wife teaches first grade if you didn't hear that he had mentioned that and he actually read at the school she teaches and. It was a big hit. She loved the book. And she's like, we got to you know, you got to get him on the podcast. He's really, really awesome guy. And, you know, and we got the book here at our house and our five year old loves it. It's one of these books that now I'm reading every night incorporated into our book routine. But so what gap did you see between, you know, kids seeing the alphabet and then recognizing letters?

So that's one of the biggest challenges that's usually in the kindergarten year. For some kids it takes longer. They're still working on that in first grade and second grade even. Some kids come into school already, they already know all the letters. So we get a such a wide range of children who come into school. But one thing we know from research is being able to identify the letters of the alphabet is one of the first indicators of successful reading. So It's always a priority to get the kids to know the letters and then know the sounds. That's something that kindergarten teachers just take tons of data on. Okay, then there's always tracking the other. Okay, now they know 13 of their letters. Okay, now they know 21 of their letters. Now they know 23 of their letters. And, you know, they track this all the time and my heart is always for teachers and the hard job that they have. And if there's anything we can do to just give them one more tool, this is just one more little tool. This isn't a curriculum in itself. No child is probably going to learn their letters just from this book. Although I did have a mom who came and said, you know, my child was reading that book and now they know all their letters and I didn't even really teach them anything. And that was one of the neatest rewards that I've had as an author so far. But, um, Just giving teachers one more tool for their toolbox that they can help give the kids a fun way to practice. Honestly, the way that several pages, as you know, if you've read the book, it's really like letter flashcards in a book. I mean, it's rather than sitting there and doing flashcards with kids, how do you remember this letter? it's in a fun story, it's got colorful illustrations, and it's mixed up with the song so that the song still works. So if they know the alphabet song, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, if they can sing the song, which most kids can do before they go to school and before they can identify any of the letters on their own, they can use those auditory cues to help them predict what letter it is so when you get to the end of a mixed up alphabet i'll just give you an example here from from the book one of the pages the kids go to the park and they sing as a funny mixed up where they sing the alphabet song like this a d c p z s t and so when they get to that letter t if they don't know the letter t yet. they at least know it's probably going to sound like G because that's what's in the song, right? A, B, C, D, E, F. It could be T or V or G, but it's not going to be R or W because that just doesn't work with the song that they know so well. So really it's just giving kids what they already know from the alphabet song. And if they have any kind of rhyming sense at all, which most kids, a lot of kids naturally will, they will have a better shot at being able to identify that letter as it comes up in an unusual place in the song. So if we just sang the alphabet song over and over, they would just sing the song from memory and they wouldn't even have to look at the letters. So this really helps them with one-to-one correspondence, touching each letter as they go across the page and singing the song in the mixed up way. It's like having a flashcard there for each letter. It's got the rhyming cue from the song. And hopefully with that, and hopefully a parent is nearby or an older brother or sister or someone that can help them when they get stuck, or a partner in the classroom that will help them see those letters, practice them over and over to where they can just then look at the letter and know what it is. That's just one of those early fundamental reading skills. again, it's not going, it's not, you know, this isn't something that everyone needs, but it's just one more little tool to help kids learn the letters and practice and have a fun, fun time doing it.

Totally. And that's why, you know, you say rhythm, rhyme and repetition, improve retention. Right. That's, that's kind of how, how you think. Right. Um, but you say this, you know, this book, obviously it's, it's more than a story. You've already kind of mentioned that how it's a, you know, a literacy tool as well. So how, you know, I guess you could say like you can have this in the classroom or you can have it in the living room, right? I mean, it works either way. And that's kind of cool.

Yeah, it is. And it's one neat thing about a lot of books, you know, kids will just look at the pictures. This one. So many kids can enter this story no matter where they are as a reader. So they can just flip through and look at the pictures if they want to. They're colorful and they're bright and it's beautiful illustrations by Daniel Vlodarsky. He's my illustrator. He did such a great job of just kind of bringing the story to life through the pictures. So kids can just do that. Also kids who can't read any words yet and they're not even ready to start approaching words yet. they can just go to those letter of the alphabet pages and they can just practice the letters of the alphabet. So there's something for them. For kids who already know all the letters and they don't need that practice, there's also a story that goes along with it. So they can start practicing, you know, reading the text in the book that establishes the story for the mixed up alphabet song. So hopefully there's something for every child from, you know, preschool up through, you know, second, even third. I've even had third and fourth graders who just get a kick out of it because it's, you know, it's unusual to have them mixed up and they kind of like to see if they can do it. And it's funny how they often will not be able to sing it cleanly themselves because it's just, it's just, rocking with something that they know so well and it mixes them up. So kids have had fun with it at every level and I really think there is kind of something for everybody. But yeah, great in the home library, it's great in the school library, in the classroom. I finally have got a nice supply of books now where I can sell classroom sets for a little bit cheaper for teachers or schools who want a set of them, if they want to get 10 or 12, so that every child in the classroom can have a partner and sit down and read, because there's so much that they can do. Just sitting with another child, just a friend, and singing through these, it's a fun way for them to practice something that normally would be flashcards or something maybe not quite so fun or a worksheet or whatever, and hopefully be able to get some of those educational skills out of it.

Yeah, that's, that's totally right. And your, your illustrations, like they, your, who was, who was the guy, we got to give him the plug one more time.

Yeah. Daniel Wlodarski, a great illustrator. And I, he did such a wonderful job and I don't know if you want to go here, but the, the, the fun thing was, um, people say, well, how did you work with the illustrator? Is he just, you know, as he lived nearby? Well, he lives in Poland. He lives on the other side of the world. Um, not even sure if he speaks English. We did all of our communicating through writing, and I would sometimes send him some videos where I was talking, and later I thought, I wonder if he can even understand what I'm saying, because he definitely speaks Polish. So yeah, he lives in Poland. We collaborated on this work together. I just fell in love with his illustrations. I saw his work and other self-published works that people had written and I, you know, kind of checked some references that, hey, how was this guy? They said, oh, he was great. And he was great. And I just, just a phenomenal artist. So, so fun to work with him. And there's just kind of another unique part of the whole experience was collaborating with someone on the other side of the world on a project together. So yeah, but the illustrations are beautiful.

They are. I mean, the color, the vibrant, you know, it's they really are fun. And like you say, it goes so perfectly with with the letters and everything. So I really I know you also have before I forget this, that you have some free resources on ABC mixup dot com as well. So I know you can tell we'll touch on that at the end as well.

So.

Obviously this helps kids, especially post-pandemic. And obviously the deeper the purpose, better representation, joy and curiosity in the kid, right?

Right. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. So what, you know, what was like the, after doing this entire book, what, now that I'm going to kind of shift, what did this like teach about yourself? Like, you know, what did you find out more about you?

Well, as I said, I've always, I've always been a creative. I've always been a maker. I love to make things and create things and come up with new ideas. Um, you always, you always say, oh, I could make that. I could sell that. Or I could, oh, I can make a website to this. I could make a podcast that would do that. But then. You actually have to do it. You can't just think, Oh yeah, I could do that. I can do that. I can do that. I could do that. If you, at some point you kind of want to prove to yourself, well, you say you can do it. Can you do it? So, um, a lot of it, the interesting thing about being especially a self published author is, you know, writing is a huge part of that, but really that huge part is probably about one or 2% of being a self published author is actually writing the story. Um, the other 98% is the entrepreneurship part. Now it's all about marketing and it's about, getting your files all lined up. It's graphic design to upload to Amazon. It's opening up an Amazon account and making sure you, I'm now an international importer trying to have books printed overseas and shipped to my house. And so you're trying to navigate all that. So there's a huge, huge business component of this. And now I'm booking school visits. So I'm my own booking agent and, you know, just was all the emailing a couple of different schools this morning before we started talking. It's so, it just explodes into all of these other things as anyone, I mean, I know you're in the real estate business, you know. you know, it's probably about five or 10% selling houses and then it's 90% running the business and doing the marketing and trying to do the accounting and pay the taxes and all the different things that comes with running a business. So that's probably been the most, um, you know, I've, I've known that I can tell a story to kids and make them giggle and laugh, but that's not, I haven't kind of did that for 30 years. Um, you know, in the moment, not necessarily through a book, but, to be able to put together a project that's, you know, having some success. The book is actually selling copies. It's probably coming up on 10,000 copies of the book sold already. So, you know, it's not a million copies sold yet, but we'll see maybe someday, but it's been successful enough. So I think it's been fun to learn and I'm just a learner and maybe that's the educator in me, but I just love to learn, learn, learn, learn. So it was just learning about publishing, learning about entrepreneurship, learning about the marketing, learning about even sales tax. You have to collect sales tax when you're selling a book. And how do you, what do you do when you collect the tax? How do you pay the tax to the state? And all these different things. There's just so much learning. And it just, uh, that that's what I enjoy. I just love learning. I love expanding what I know and what skills I have. And, um, we'll be able to hopefully apply that to other things too.

Yeah. You totally forget that you got a whole, you know, world of other things involved with writing a book and it's not just sitting down and playing with markers and fun words and letters. Yeah. There's a whole business side of that. I'm sure. And you know, I guess you teach the, you teach the, uh, the ABC, the book to, to, you know, Elementary kids, I guess now you can go into high school and teach them how to get a book published. And that'll be your next next.

Yeah, actually, I love talking to kids about that. And I mentioned earlier, I also do a little bit of board game design of design, a few games. And I talk to kids about game design. And really, it all comes down to design thinking is something that the school where I was a principal, we really emphasize design thinking. teaching kids how to create and how to do it strategically and systematically, and to use that design thinking process. So I do have workshops. In fact, at your wife's school, I talked to the older kids about that, the third, fourth, and fifth graders. We had a big workshop on design thinking and how an author uses design thinking, not just in writing the book, but in the whole publication process. And the same thing for developing board games and other things like that. Yeah, I do. I love teaching. I love talking about this kind of stuff and mostly helping others learn because so many people, everything that I've learned has just been from other people sharing. And you learn from their successes and you learn from their mistakes. And I'm happy to share my successes and mistakes with others also, so hopefully they can learn and be successful with their projects.

Yeah, that's that's really neat. And, you know, totally awesome aspect that you have in yourself. So did your kids influence part of this journey or was this just like I know you said for 15 years, you kind of held it in. And I know being an administrator, you don't have a lot of time, but. knowing administrators and knowing, you know, my wife's boss, they somehow find time for everything. Right. And and then somehow I have a bunch of kids. So did you just were you just nervous about putting it out there? You truly just didn't have time.

Oh, yeah. Truly just didn't have time. Yeah. I mean, I was I was a dad at the same time. So, you know, as a dad, there's There's no time for yourself. You don't have time for your projects because you're going to the kids' ballgames and their band concerts and running them here and there. So no, it's definitely just not time is what it is. And the big job on top of that that has so many nights and weekends and activities and events. Emails at nights and texts at night and texts in the morning and so many things going on So now it really is it really was a time and but for those who think they don't have time Like I said, I I finally forced it in it was before I retired while I was still working Um by then my I think we were empty nesters by then. So my kids had moved on so that that does help a little bit uh, but uh, you know, you can't put everything off and I just want to encourage others who are thinking that don't Don't think, oh, I'll do that someday, or I'll do that when I retire. Sometimes you've got to take a project and go after it and realize, hey, there may not be a time in retirement where I'm able to do that. You never know what the next day is going to bring. So some of those dreams, you've got to chase them now. But again, as a dad, I don't want to sacrifice that. I'm not going to put one of my own projects ahead of being a good dad and being there for my kids. You've got to prioritize, but I do hope as people are listing their priorities, they will always consider what dreams can you attack now and get after rather than just procrastinating and kicking it down the road because you can do it. There are a lot of things you can do that might surprise you.

Yeah, I bet, you know, if someone listened to this is gonna hear that and say, Hey, I, you know, we hope that someone out there puts out the book or has finds the time to, you know, do something like this, because obviously the impact you're making just like you're saying, not just in a fun way or a silly way, but it's, it's an actual tool, um, to help kids understand literacy letters. So that's really cool. And I think, you know, influencing this future generations is is massive. And I think you're leaving an awesome legacy.

Well, I I think all educators are doing that. And if they're doing their job well, and they're, you know, if they love what they're doing, they're doing it with a with a service heart, I think they're all doing that. So I, I know your wife's doing that every day. And those teachers at her school, they're just such an impressive bunch of humans who are who are just really they are leaving a legacy and creating a legacy and just creating that next generation. And that's and there were those who did that for us. So for those who are staying in the education business and any business where you're just trying to serve others and, and, and help that next generation and help leave that legacy. Good for you. I would say, stick with it.

Love that. I love that. And any, all the kids that are listening, you know, that go get the book first and then, you know, have, have some laughs, right. With your parents. So yeah, it's a good time. Hopefully your friends are, yeah. Like you say, your neighbor or someone, it's like, Cassidy brought it home and I immediately had fun with it. I'm like, I'm loving this book. So yeah, no, I want to do some rapid fire if you're all right with that. Just a few questions.

I know.

We're going to, we're going to, we're going to do this. So what was the best reaction that kid had reading the book so far?

Uh, best reaction. Um, I'm not always there when they're reading it. What I do like about it is they start to giggle and laugh usually right away. And even I think one of my favorite things is when the older kids, like a third or fourth grader, they'll get, oh, this is a little baby book. And they'll start thinking, oh, whatever. And then halfway through, all of a sudden, they're really having a good time. They're giggling and laughing and making fun of their friend because they goofed up one of the letters and they're all laughing together about it. Really, I think that's what it is. Anytime you just see kids laughing and having fun with something that you created, there's just a lot of pride in that.

I love that. So what would you name your next children's book? If you had to name a book right now, what would it be?

Oh, it's called action boy versus the author coming soon to a bookstore near you. Oh, there we go. That was an easy one. That was too easy. Working on another project right now. Hopefully it will turn into a little series. Another, uh, another book that will have a teaching point along with it that hopefully teachers and librarians will find helpful.

That's truly special. That's truly awesome. Well, last question.

Okay.

Give me a lesson that you hope out of this book that kids can carry on forever.

Oh, a lesson. I, you know, I hope maybe it's just to have fun while you're learning and find ways to have fun while you're learning and to keep learning. Um, You know, in my author talk, I talk a lot about design thinking and always just thinking through things, making prototypes and revising it and trying to make things better. I love the title of your podcast. It's Elevate, right? That's what I want for kids is to elevate everything that you're doing. So I don't know that there's a lifelong lesson from the alphabet other than remember the name of your letters, but I think they're going to get that anyway with or without the book. But I do hope through the talks that I'm able to give at school to inspire them to always try to make things better. Take your first prototype and then make a better one, and make a second prototype, and then make it better, and make a third one, and get a lot of feedback, and see how people are responding. And remember, most of the time when you're creating something and making something, you're making it for someone else. So always be thinking about others. Be thinking about your audience. What do they want? What do they need? And I think if they can remember those things, that'll serve them well in many ways.

I love that. I do. And I think this has been a special conversation and I think people are going to go out there and kids, parents, friends, neighbors, siblings, anyone can go obviously get this book. So doctor, I appreciate you coming on here and You're not just teaching ABCs. You're teaching children how to keep curiosity alive. You're reminding educators, parents, and all of us that learning doesn't have to be stale. It can be silly. It can be joyful and deeply impactful all at once. So if you got young readers at home, or if you just want a tool that brings some giggles and growth to your learning space, go grab We Mix Up, our ABCs. It's smart, it's engaging, and most importantly, it's full of heart. You can check out more at abcmixup.com. And don't forget to leave a review, share this episode, and subscribe to Elevate with Elsner Because we don't just rise, we rise together. Dr. Aaron Wills, it's been a pleasure.

Any last final word? No, I just want to thank you for having me and thank you for highlighting people who are trying to elevate things. So good for you.

Absolutely. I appreciate it. Until next time, one love.

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