Welcome to Elevate with Elsner. Join us for inspiring conversations with individuals who have transformed their lives and are making a difference through the work that they do. And now here's your host, Blake Elsner.

Welcome back to another episode of Elevate with Elsner, where we unlock your passion, and elevate your impact. My guest today is a special guest. It's my beautiful wife, Cassidy. We want to take you all on a little journey about IVF. She knows a lot more because I have to Google what IVF stands for every time. So without further ado, I'm going to introduce my wife, Cassidy. Welcome.

Blake Elsner

Thank you. It's so good to be here. I was a little nervous to come into your space, but you know, next time I'm thinking that you should come into my space in my classroom and do a little lesson in front of 18 of my students.

Cassidy Elsner

What do you think? Uh, no, I'll pass. We got, we have two of our own, so. No, I want to see it. I want to see it. I don't know if I could times that by nine, if I could do that or not. But, so anyway, we had our first kid and take it from there.

Blake Elsner

Yeah, so we've been married for six years and we're parents to two littles, Lottie and Mac. And after years of infertility and going through the process of all of these things that we're going to talk about today, We're just so grateful to have our two rainbow babies and they are truly such a blessing and it's such a blessing to be able to parent them. And so I guess I can just jump into what happened from the start with IVF and IVF is just can feel extremely isolating when you're in it and it can feel like you're the only one who has ever done it or gone through it and so I think that's why it's so important to like put our voice out there and make people feel like they're not alone in it. And also to just like offer support to people and let them know that if they ever need anything that they can always reach out to us and we're happy to support them if they're going through infertility, losses, IVF, anything like that.

Yeah and clearly after our first child, which was on Clomid, which is a fertility drug that helped with your PCOS. So you have that. And so that, in turn, helped us have MAC. And then after that, we had

Yeah. So I can start from like the top. So the first thing that happened was we actually got pregnant naturally by ourselves and it ended in a miscarriage. It was an early on miscarriage and we were actually, you know, in Arizona, you had to fly back and so that we could be there for one another. And then we decided from that point that we would go ahead and get on Clomid because we did know that I had PCOS, but we always think like, oh, wow, It's going to be easy to get pregnant. It's always kind of that mindset of it's not going to happen to me. And I think that that's really where I stood prior to Mac was I never thought any of this would happen to me because, you know, in school, they make it seem like it's easy for everyone to get pregnant. Right. And then you get into it and you're like, Wow, it's not that easy. But with Mac, I joke that he's my $5 baby. We paid $5 for a little round of Clomid. And it worked the first time. He was actually conceived in Las Vegas, which was pretty funny. Don't tell him that. Don't tell him. That's a little secret. We had a fairly easygoing pregnancy with him. It wasn't anything really out of the ordinary other than my blood pressure and things. And so he was a blessing. And then after that, you know, we always knew that we wanted to have more children and that I, I still never thought that it would be as challenging as it turned out to be. Even after Mac, I thought Clomid would just work again, right? We tried that. Yeah, we tried that. And I actually got an ovarian cyst that was the size of an orange that was the result of taking Clomid. So I did have surgery to drain that. And then, you know, sometimes you're forced into a little bit of a waiting period. And so we went through that. And then there was just so many negative pregnancy tests. And so I think month after month after you just keep receiving the bad news, it feels longer, it feels harder, it feels like more challenging. And so we moved to a fertility clinic and we decided to go to the route of IUIs. The first IUI, it didn't work. And then the second IUI, actually, I did get pregnant. And we realized when we went in for the ultrasound that it was ectopic. So the baby was essentially implanted into my tube. So we did two rounds of methotrexate, which did not work. And so we moved on to an emergency surgery and that's where they took my tube because it wasn't savable.

And during that IUI process and losing your tube, we kind of, I guess, realized a little bit more about how precious life was in terms of like what we would have to do. Yeah.

I mean, I think even during that, I was just holding on to so much hope still. I still never thought that IVF was even really in the future. I thought, this is going to work. Everything I did, I thought, it's going to work this month, it's going to work.

And with the IUI, when we got those positive pregnant tests, and your numbers kept going up, and it was all looking good, and then that shock of us sitting there going, like looking inside the bucket and there was nothing there on the ultrasound, remember?

Yeah, there was nothing in the uterus, right? Yeah, it was in the tube. That was really hard.

Yeah, and then obviously they had to take out your tube and you had to be put on that drug and it was tough to watch.

So, after all that... Yeah, we were forced into a three-month break. Which I think was good. Sometimes I think those breaks, whether they're forced or chosen, are sometimes good when you're just mentally draining to go through all of these things. Emotionally, financially, physically, you truly go through so much when you're in the process of all of this. So we moved on. After that three-month break, we decided, okay, well, You know, now that I'm down a tube, I only have one tube. And we did learn in the surgery that that tube was very twisted. So it was probably going to be very unlikely to even get pregnant on Clomid or Letrozole. And so we did an IVF consultation with STL Fertility and they are so amazing. They make you feel right at home when you're talking with the doctors and they had a really solid plan in place. But I was, I left that consultation and I was still terrifying. Mostly, you know, just about like the physical toll that it will take on my body, the emotional toll, and then also financially. I was, you know, you meet with a financial person during that first consultation and it's kind of shocking how much it's gonna take a toll financially and so I think that I was still very hesitant to move forward.

Yeah, because the insurance basically just says, fuck you, and they're not covering any part or aspect of that. So yeah, we're on our own in terms of the care.

It's very overwhelming just to hear the number. Yeah. It's very overwhelming at the beginning. Then what we did was, We took that little break and I decided, okay, we're going to jump into it. We're going to do it. No matter how we get it, we're going to do it. You and I looked through the process of what does it look like to get a loan if we needed a loan to take out this money? What does it look like if we just move forward and pay cash or whatever? But we figured it out financially, right? And so then I felt a little more comfortable. So I said, okay, we're ready to do it. And even just saying like, we're ready, felt, I felt a little bit of a relief, right? Like I was like, okay, we're, we're doing it. It made me feel better. Then we went in and I started birth control. I think that's just a little bit of a turn of events. It was just very hard for me every night to take that birth control because I was just thinking to myself, this isn't you know now I'm preventing a pregnancy you know no matter what like it is helping my cycle get on track and get regulated for IVF but it was just funny because now I'm taking birth control and it was just hard for me every night to take that birth control.

So it started with that and then after that round of birth control you were the cycle was basically

Yeah, so then you go in and there's so many ultrasounds, you know, you have your baseline. And then at that baseline, we actually noticed that I did have another cyst in my ovary. And so I think there's just so many ups and downs, because even then at the baseline, we weren't sure if we were going to be able to move on with the medication to stimulate my ovaries to produce, you know, those mature follicles. And so you're just constantly going through those ups and downs throughout the entire cycle. And it really weighs on you mentally. And so we took the weekend and we were very hopeful that that cyst would shrink so that come Monday, we were able to start those stimulation medications. We went back in on Monday and the cysts had shrunk enough so that I could start those medications. And so we went to go pick up all of the shots and there goes another, you know, few thousand dollars to Walgreens. And I remember thinking like, my goodness, we just gave $6,000 to Walgreens, but I did get $60 back to go spend." I was like, that's a pretty good coupon, right? No. But that was just something little. um, when we did do those first few shots, you know, you helped me and it just, it's such a learning curve. I remember saying to my friends, like, I'm not a nurse. I don't know how to pull medication up from a vial. I don't know how to, is that the right place to inject it? And as much, and you know, remember we would watch those videos on the computer and we're just like constantly pausing. We're rewinding. We're trying to make sure we're doing every little thing correctly because you know, everything weighs so heavily on you doing it by yourself correctly when you get home.

And the whole time we still have Mac, we have our son to take care of while we're doing all this. So it's, you know, it's a lot, a lot on the plate. And so I can't remember, to be honest, how many shots it started with, but I thought the same thing. I'm like, fuck, I, I was scared to death of needles and to have to do that. I'm like, that every night I was like, fuck.

And I think one of the big things that I did was I had these little positive affirmation notes and I just would stick them all around the house. Like, you know, one is still hanging on our fridge and I'm like, I'm not pulling it down. You know, I still like love to see it. And it just reminds me of everything we did to get to where we are now. But I think those things helped. And then also, you know, you had bought me that IVF journal and you would write me little notes like you are strong and I just, you know, I'm very sentimental. So I just save all those things and I still have like my IVF bucket, you know, and and it was just like helpful to like lean on those things when I was scared of doing that shot and I remember the first night, you know, like I was supposed to do my shot. by myself because I forget you went somewhere, right? And I was like, okay, I got to do this by myself. And you get in your head when you're doing those shots. You just get full of anxiety. And I remember I forgot to put the alcohol swab on the vial, you know, like something so silly. But I thought, that's it. I messed it up. And then so I called my nurse and I think my nurse thought I was a little bit crazy, which is okay. But I was like, I forgot to put the alcohol swab on the vial. And she was like, honey, that's okay. And you lean on those people. And she had my nurse had gone through IVF herself and I think it was just nice. Like, I can call I can pick up the phone I can call my nurse I can call my doctor, I know that they're there for me. Like I knew that you were there for me and you know I'm. I called you I was like I did it by myself like I forgot to do this one thing because I was so nervous but in the end you know you just lean on those strong relationships and so you know we're getting ready for the retrieval. We know that we have a lot of mature follicles and you know I think it's just interesting because PCOS was my absolute enemy when trying to get pregnant with Mac and, you know, with the second child, right? It was my enemy. Like that's what was causing me not to get pregnant by myself. And then it became weirdly my best friend when going through IVF because That's the reason that I was able to have so many mature follicles during that retrieval process. So we actually had 39 mature follicles and that's not what happens to everybody, right? The process of IVF is different for everyone. There's many, many reasons why people go the route of IBF, and so it's not always that many follicles. It just happened to be that way because of the condition that I do have of PCOS. And so from there, it's just a big waiting game constantly. You're trying to see how many are mature, and then you're seeing how many fertilized, and then you're getting a call for how many day five blastocysts you have. And then you're getting a call for how many blastocysts, which are the embryos, how many you want to send off to genetic testing, and then you wait for the genetic testing to come back. When people are going through that, it's just so important to take care of yourself mentally and physically and emotionally. And I just remember I had to really, really try to focus on living in the present. And I really struggled with that. like thinking what I could have done differently in the past. What am I going to do moving forward? What's my future going to look like? And the present, staying in the present was very hard for me and I just tried to focus. I remember trying to focus so hard on just making those memories with Mac, soaking up the time that we had with Mac. And, you know, I'm so thankful. You know, I look back and I'm like, wow, we really got to spend so much time with Mac and really just like see who he's growing up to be. And I think it was a blessing in disguise that, you know, they're four and a half years apart because we really soaked up our time with him. And so, you know, you just take things and you you know, you see the positive in it.

Yeah, no, and our COVID baby, Mac, obviously.

Oh yeah, that's another story.

Our life was a little different with him because of COVID, everything shut down as soon as he was born. But going back to our IVF, like the shots initially, you know, there was a few and it kind of, I thought it'd be a little easier, but then they just kept coming and coming, these shots. And then you're just like, when are these shots ever going to end?

It almost just becomes like messed up my mind. Yeah. I mean, and I think for you, maybe the shots got hurt or I don't know, but for me, the more I did it, the more I was like, okay, I can do this. Right. Like I got it.

Yeah. There'd be some days you're like, oh, that was a, that was a good shot. Other days you're like, ah, that one really hurt. Yeah.

Yeah, you kind of get like little techniques and things, you know. And you just know, like I knew in the back of my head, I was like, I'm doing this. It's not only for me, right? It was like for my family. It was for Mac to have a sibling. It was for you and I to have a second baby. And I just would think in my head, like, you know, I'm going to do this. I'm going to be okay. And what I always thought, what is my Christmas table going to look like in 15 to 20 years? Like, I want it full. I want a baby. I want another baby. It was just, I was, very focused on doing that. I think also I kept myself really busy. I was in my master's program. I was teaching full-time. I was a mom. I was trying to be a wife at the same time. There was a lot more going on than just IVF. Maybe that was helpful too. I don't know.

Yeah, it consumed obviously. quite a bit of our life, like even the times we talked on the last episode about when we were at Hollywood Casino Amphitheater before that country concert and we gave you the shot in the back of the car.

Yeah, you just do what you got to do. We were like, we're still living and I'll just take this vial, this syringe with me and we're just going to keep pushing forward.

Yeah. I remember convincing you to go and

Yeah, I don't think I really wanted to go.

I don't think you really wanted to go with blue and yellow bruises all over each butt cheek.

Yeah, that wasn't fun.

So, and that's what got to me. But so, as we progressed, we were, you know, you go through all those tests, we have all these embryos, blah, blah, blah, all that big language.

Yeah. And I think that one of the other challenging things was after that retrieval and after those 39 mature eggs, I really was having some very intense symptoms of ovarian hypersimulation syndrome. And the doctors knew, right? I was watched very closely. And it was mild enough to handle at home, but it was incredibly uncomfortable. I just remember my stomach was so, so very swollen and how uncomfortable I was. And I remember telling my boss like, Hey, I'm not going to be dressed nicely for a little while. I got to wear my sweatpants. I'm having some severe stomach bloating and pain and things.

Yeah, it was like an inflated balloon.

fluid in the ovaries, but that's for another time to talk science. So after that, just like I said, everything feels like a weight. It's just draining the weight. The phone calls, you're waiting by your phone to see the nurse. Oh, the nurse is calling. I got to answer this. I got to see how many day five blastocysts we have, all of that. And so we were ready to transfer in June, right? But I really needed to meet with that high-risk OB, kind of get on the same page, make sure that everything with my blood pressure was going to be pretty controlled with this pregnancy too. So then again, another waiting zone because we were like, okay, I got to push it back to July. So we get to July. I start those transfer medications. And the shocking thing about those transfer medications was the retrieval shots are not a very big needle. And then you get to those transfer, the progesterone and oil and that needle. is pretty intense. I remember and I will never forget the first night and I truly wanted to run away. I think I was like, no, no, no. Remember, you were trying to get me. I was like, I can't. And I think that IVF truly shows you, you are so strong. You're so much stronger than you think you are. You are so much tougher than you think you are. I was like, I have to do it. And I just got myself in the mindset and I was like, I have to do it. And did it hurt? Yeah, it hurt horrible. And did it hurt more as we continued? Yeah, because then I was giving myself shots. You were giving me shots and two bruises, right? And, you know, but you just do it and you just, we leaned on one another and, you know, I just,

during that beginning those needles were so little and that's where I was like oh this will this will be easy this was like taking care of a dog and then those big those big needles come out and you're like oh my and now it's like taking care of a kid.

Yeah it was it wasn't fun it wasn't fun um and so I mean I then, you know, you're doing all those, the progesterone and oil is truly the hardest one, in my opinion. And then the day of the transfer gets here and everything's looking good. And I remember the doctor said to me like, aren't you so excited? It's transfer day, like transfer day is here. And I remember to myself, I'm thinking, I'm really not that excited. You know, I was, but you get to the point where you're like protecting yourself from the emotions, right? Like you're almost like numb. Like I'm going through the motions of this because this is what I have to do to have another baby. And I remember saying like, I'm excited, but I'm more hopeful that it just works because it was weighed so heavily on me and I just wanted it to work so bad. And I know what it feels like to be let down on a negative pregnancy test, right? And so I was almost emotionally protecting myself during that. you come to a point where you're like... I had taken probably, I don't know, hundreds of pregnancy tests throughout the five, six-year journey in total. And I never thought that I'd see two pink lines. And then I got... I have no self-control personally. So I was taking tests probably like day three But I truly was like, I'm going to be check of this. And so that one day, I think it was day five after the transfer, a very, very faint line showed up and here's me with my phone flashlight, staring at it, looking at it at all different angles, really trying to see if this pink line is real. Then of course, I was tracking to see if it got darker and everything in every day, it got darker and it got a little bit darker and I was like, oh my gosh, this might be real. But you still have that, I had had two miscarriages before, so you still have that in the back of your mind, is it going to work?

There's so much work leading up to that point that if it didn't work, you're like, I mean, which it doesn't for everybody. Thank God we were blessed enough that it worked. But it is like you're numb, like you're emotionless.

you kind of are setting yourself up almost to be disappointed because it I don't know you cut you as a human being I think we just want to protect ourselves from feeling all those feelings and I think that that's kind of the point that I got I was just like how Am I going to protect myself if it is negative again? And so, you know, it wasn't. And so I was so excited, so proud, but I think that I was fearful the entire pregnancy until I held her in my arms. Um, and that's, you know, we just held on tight, like through the entire pregnancy. And I just, every ultrasound I remember going in and I'm just like, is that heartbeat still beating? Is she still in there? You know, like I could have had an ultrasound every day because I just wanted to check like how she doing there, you know, between your OBGYN and your high risk, you had about,

you know, once a week you had an ultrasound.

Well, at the end, yeah. Not at the beginning, you know.

Yeah. And not even, I think at one point, there's that sneak a peek where you can go and... I did do that one time because I have, once again, going back to the, you know, zero self-control in that area.

I think it had been what, like, maybe three weeks since I had an ultrasound and this was when I couldn't feel her moving yet, you know. And I was like, I gotta make sure she's still doing good. And she was. But I save every single one of those ultrasound pictures. And I have videos on my phone of that first little heartbeat that we heard. And it just is an amazing feeling when you're like, we did it. we made it and you know I just remember like hearing songs in the car and like just like having all of these emotions like yeah we made it yeah like we made it and um yeah it was hard I mean I even I get emotional just thinking about it right now because you know it was a it was a tough tough time it was and like We truly could not have had a stronger group of doctors. We had our embryologist and friends and family. And I think one of the biggest things for me was it felt isolating. When you're in it, you feel like no one's ever gone through this before. It kind of feels like that when you're home alone and you're doing the shots. by yourself, you feel like, oh my gosh, no one has ever done this before. But then I found this almost community of people and I was like, okay, there's a lot of stories with people who've gone through IVF and I want to hear their story. And I think that just hearing other people's stories, even one of the doctors at STL Fertility went through IVF herself. Just like hearing those stories, they empower you. You feel validated. It gives you so much hope. And I think that that's so important. And I hope to be that person for people who are also going through this journey. I always joke, I'm like, and there she was. We have our $5 baby and we got our $30,000 baby. We have them both and the journey to both of them was very unique. And I'm just thankful.

We never really got to see Honestly, either of them very well in the ultrasounds.

Yeah, they love to cover their face, right?

Yeah. So that didn't help throughout the IVF process because we never really got even a good picture of her. The whole time I'm like, is she even real? You're in this state of euphoria almost. You don't know. She came out and I'm like, holy crap.

And I remember they pull down, because I had a C-section, right? They pull down the blue shade and it's the clear. And the first thing I thought was, oh my gosh, she looks just like Mac. She's so much smaller. But she looks just like Mac. And I was just so thankful. And we have that such cool photo of the doctor like holding her up, showing her to us. And it was just an amazing moment. I think one of the most incredible days in life is meeting your baby. You know, truly 400 trillion odds of being Yeah, it's a miracle.

So that really was awesome for us.

It was such a huge miracle.

When she came out, obviously you were sedated and under the knife because of the C-section. Myself, you know me, I couldn't stop crying and just like now I'm crying and you're not crying. We have two different, I'm a soft cancer and you're a Leo lion, as we say. So we got our personalities sometimes clash, but I think That's kind of what got us through in a way because we were together and we were like, hey, this is what we're going to do. And we even said, if it doesn't work, we'll just do it again.

Yeah. And sometimes like, you know, when you're emotional, I'm holding it together. And then when I'm emotional, you're holding it together. You know, I think it kind of works. Yeah. Kind of a good little system we got going on here. But what else?

You know, it was, yeah, no, I mean, I, I always say how hard of a load it was for you to carry. You look back and you're just like, man, it was tough to watch you do all that. Now I can see how strong you are and the courage it takes and all that different type of stuff to actually withstand the torture because I joke how I was, taking my Zep bound once a week. I'm like, oh, this sucks. Or my testosterone, when my testosterone was low and I was taking testosterone, she's having to give me a shot. And it's once a month. And I'm over here whining like a little baby. Yeah. I love to give you a hard time. Yeah. And meanwhile, I thought to myself, holy crap, I gave her a shot, a needle four times the size of this needle. And every single night at eight o'clock. Yeah. There was dinner and I mean we couldn't do stuff because like our schedule was.

We're pretty tied to.

Yeah it was might as well have been pregnant before.

Yeah I know when I and I always joke like when I got to the end of you know the pregnancy with Lottie I was like I feel like I have been pregnant for a couple years now. You know, it was just like the whole process of, you know, like you just treated your body as it was pregnant. So I felt like I had been pregnant for so long. I had just been waiting. We had been waiting for her for so long. Yeah. And so I think that we just we really did grow like a deeper appreciation for one another. There was some very like low, hard moments. Of course, it's like inevitable. But at the end, when I look back at it, you know, I'm just like, that grew us, that grew our family, that grew huge relationships for me with friends and, you know, just other people. And I feel like now I can be that person for other people that are going through IVF. And I think that's It's huge. We all have a story. We all have something to share. We can all be there for one another. It's just quite the community around infertility, IVF, losing babies, women. I think it's being talked about more, and I think that's so important. You know, back then, like ever hearing about it, like when my mom went through pregnancies or my grandmother, you know, they were saying like, we didn't really hear about it. And I feel like women now are just more open to talking about it. Not everybody, but a lot of women. And I think that that's, what's important. We've got to come together and be there for one another and share our story because it makes people feel like they aren't alone. And it's a less, um, isolating experience for people.

I think also what it is is that it's the stats of infertility. I think it's one in four couples.

I think you know what, don't quote me on this, but I do think it went to one in three just recently.

Yeah. I had to rule myself out too in terms of getting my semen checked because that's part of the process. I joked that, the dad side of it. There was really not a whole lot I could do to reach out to anybody about IVF. And I joked the one time I told you I had to take my boys into the office and nobody wanted to take it. The receptionist was like... I think STL fertility is better about that. Yeah. They're a little more used to it.

This was a lab, just a general lab.

Yeah. And then I got to The day of the, what is it, the transfer where the egg, I actually had to go into the facility and sit on like a couch from the 1980s and relieve myself.

I'm not quite sure I have too much sympathy for it, you know?

Yeah, no, she didn't have much sympathy because I got to relieve myself and put a cup through the window.

I was like, you know what, if there's an easy part to this, I think it's that. But I know it was a little bit challenging for you too.

Yeah. I wrote, I don't want your job on the little canister and sent it through the window. Wow.

I hope you didn't do that. Yeah. You never told me that before.

Some of the pages of those magazines were stuck together and I was like, no.

Okay.

I'm just kidding. Yeah. But no, I mean, that's part of the journey. I think what it did, it made us, comfortable with uncomfortable situations, because that kind of, I think, when I look back, IVF probably sparked, you know, stuff to the point where now look at us, we're here talking about it. And I mean, I probably wouldn't have thought we would even got through IVF, much less be here now on our podcast, in a way, talking about it.

I joke like I know this is a little cliche like everything happens for a reason but truly like I had challenges when I was younger and you know I had this challenge too of IVF and I just think I'm sitting here today. And if I hadn't gone through all of those things, I truly wouldn't be the person that I am. And so it does shape you into who you are. You know, it's a very trying, challenging time, but it makes you so much stronger. And you just realize, wow, like, I can do this. I can do hard things. I think that's what the little note says that's still hanging on our fridge. It says, I am resilient.

You're worth every shot.

Yeah.

I had lots of little notes hanging around. Yeah. Looking back on it, I wouldn't change it for the world. I think the strength and resilience of you doing it, having the courage to then talk about it and bring it out to people because it's, like I said, people are going through this now, which actually, even being at STL Fertility, we even knew people that were there at the same time.

Yeah, there were times that I saw people in the waiting room and I'm like, oh my gosh. I can't believe like, it's just so many people go through it and you don't quite realize. I do remember like walking through the grocery store after my ectopic actually, and thinking to myself, no one knows that I just lost like another pregnancy. No one knows, right? Like, I think it's important that we're always aware that we don't know what people are going through. We don't know the challenges and everything that people are living through and just be kind like, you know, I just remember walking through the grocery store and thinking that to myself.

Yeah. I mean, the be kind part is, I think what you have a shirt that says, what does it say on it? Something?

Oh, who knows? I have so many teachers shirts. Always be kind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're trying to instill that in students too, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I won't be taking you up on that class. substitution.

Yeah, no, I want to see it. So anyway, just like if I had advice to someone who's going through it or thinking about going through it or anything is that You're truly stronger than you think. You can do it. It's worth it in the end. It's so worth it. I look every day at our children and I think, I'm so proud of myself. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of them. I'm proud of all of us as a family for having the courage to do this and to grow our family. And I think also just like, if you are going through it, the process can feel so isolating, but please reach out to someone, listen to other people's stories, gives you hope, it validates your feelings, and give yourself lots of grace going through it. I remember people having comments to us such as like, just get drunk and like you'll get pregnant or just go on vacation and you'll get pregnant, right? And I wanted it. And I got to the point where, you know, I kind of like stood up for myself. I was like, no, like, you don't get it. This is science. You know, like this might have been easy for you, right? But this is this is like a little bit of a science thing going on.

It's kind of like when we say like the people that complain about babies crying on an airplane. Yeah. Not the sidetrack. Yeah. that's the most immature thing that you can do. And there was that flight attendant one time on a plane in front of us and was just irate about these babies screaming. And I think the flight attendant said, sounds like a bunch of like squealing pig or baby goats. And you're just like, man, that's just... Well, yeah.

And I think it's important to just always know you don't know like how someone else is feeling or you know you might not have the experience in life yet and I think about that a lot like so it's hard to empathize or really know what it's like until you go through something yourself you know and so that's what I always think is important to keep at the forefront of your mind.

Yeah I think people aren't they're not you know I don't think people are open to listening to others and it's the old cherished beliefs. When you can't put yourself in somebody else's shoes and you can't have empathy, then I don't think it's a great world for you to be in. You're just going to be basically living to die. Now, every single day we wake up and we're like, we know how precious life is.

Yeah. I think there's been a lot of work surrounding that, you know, not just IVF, but just everything in life and just gathering more experiences that has led to those kinds of thoughts.

Yeah. Well, no, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm truly proud. And I know if I was a woman or a man, I would, that was going through IVF. You have two incredible resources right here. And, I wish I could have had someone like this that was on a podcast that would put themselves out here and say, hey, we're resources that you could reach out to. And I know you've already impacted people that are going through IVF or are thinking about going through IVF or struggling with infertility. And like you say, Just keep going.

Yeah. And I think there's just such huge power in community. And I just wish and hope that if someone is struggling, that they find someone to reach out to. And I'm happy to be that person, to be a listener, to tell you my story. I remember one of our neighbors, she saw my post about, hey, we're starting IVF. And she reached out and she was like, I did it you know like talk to me and that's just so powerful and you realize like there's other people that have done this and I can talk to them and I can feel like validated and I know that I'm going to be okay.

Yeah that it is true and you and those are those are your allies and those people They really care about your well-being because they reach out and they want to help you. That's a whole different level of character, a level of growth that's instilled in somebody and not everybody has that.

Yeah.

I'm very thankful. Yeah. I'm proud and going forward, like I said, anybody reach out to us. And we will gladly, I'm starting, if you know anybody, IVF dads, I have a Facebook group. Yeah, I love this. For any dads.

Yeah, dads need support too, right? Yeah. They're the ones who are supporting their partner.

Yeah, we don't, you know, we don't carry the hard part like you do. But you carry the emotional toll of it. You just don't necessarily carry the baby and all the pain, but you got to be there and you got to be strong. I think I held back a lot of tears during that process and let a lot of tears go. Um, I think it's good to cry and it's good to stop, you know, the external validation and stop caring what other people think. Like if you have to go the route of IVF, like to create a family and you want a family, then fucking do it because no one's going to care when you're dead.

Yeah. And look at us. Yeah. It's worth it.

So any final words?

Just, um, you know, if you're going through it, just give yourself grace and remember that there's people there for you and you're not alone. And that I know it's tough, but so are you.

That's awesome. All right. Well, thanks. Thanks for joining us on this journey. And, uh, please reach out to us if you, anybody has any questions, comments, concerns about IVF, we are here. will always be here and will always be open ears for anyone and everyone.

Yes, absolutely. I will make sure that I record Blake teaching a first grade lesson for everyone to see.

All right. We're out of here. Bye.

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