Welcome to Elevate with Elsner. Join us for inspiring conversations with individuals who have transformed their lives and are making a difference through the work that they do. And now, here's your host, Blake Elsner.

Welcome back to another episode of Elevate with Ellsner. I'm your host, Blake. And today we have a truly special guest joining us, Nox Malus, a seasoned leader in the title industry. He has an impressive portfolio of partnerships across several esteemed companies. Knox's expertise and dedication have been instrumental in the growth and success of these enterprises, making him a highly respected figure in the field. We are thrilled to have him on the show. Knox, your leadership and extensive experience in the title industry are truly inspiring. So we're excited to dive into your journey, explore the insights you've gained, and learn more about the impact you're making in the industry. So thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, buddy.

Blake Elsner

I appreciate it.

Knox Mailhes

Yeah, absolutely. So if for people that don't know you, obviously, I know you just want to just give us a little start of, you know, I think obviously you started at the University of what is it, Missouri State, I guess it was when you graduated there and kind of start with that and how you blossom to where you are now.

I don't know about Blossom, but I made it here some way or the other, right? But thanks. So yeah, I graduated there. I had a double major in PR and marketing, minor in criminal justice. That's a long story. And then I had an internship with the company I'd been doing the internship with at school. And kind of a rarity, man, I was with MCI Communications and I stayed there for 14 years after college, up until the time when, and I worked my way up to become, you know, Wholesale Networks, Director of Wholesale Network Services for the Midwest region there. So, you know, I guess I had some pretty good, definitely good scale there and opportunities that I was blessed with. But, you know, in order to get You know the communications business at that time became pretty lackluster when it comes to performance you know they had kind of had some serious issues with. Various communications companies one of which had purchased us called world car which is like a cuss word now because yeah bernie ever decided to fight the books a little bit when it came to the stock and so forth so. I could have stayed, then Verizon ended up ultimately buying us and I could have stayed, but I would have had to move. I also wanted to become self-employed because I'd already been doing a side hustle that allowed me to rehab and do some small development work with some of my business partners, one of which, and the person I worked with a lot was my now business partner, Bruce Bartlett. Basically, he wanted to grow the title business. I wanted to get out of the rat race and create ownership. And that's when Integrity Title Solutions, it wasn't born. He started it in 99, but I came on board about 2006.

Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Thinking back on real fast, obviously we could do a whole episode on that Worldcom. My, obviously my uncle, my uncle George, uh, I forgot he had actually worked at MCI. I believe at a point. Yeah. So I, I remember that disaster, but that could, that could be a whole nother series of, of episodes. But so yeah, when, when you started in with Bruce and you know, now you're obviously a part of a partner in about seven different title.

Yeah, I guess. Honestly, I don't even count. I know that sounds dumb, but my accountant counts, I guess. I just kind of help manage the business and run the business wherever that I can. And a lot of that is by doing things like this. I like to get out and about. I like to spend time with our clients and go to events and things like that. I was never one to want to sit behind the desk all the time. So, it's worked out well for me. You know, it kind of started out with integrity. We then did our first joint venture, which is Pinnacle Title. That was our first real joint venture with Keller Williams Realty. That was about five years ago, I guess now. We did that with kind of the now president. Well, actually, just recently, not the president, Mark King. Turned out he was a friend of mine and we wanted to do this. And so we grew it through some various regions in Missouri, Illinois and Arkansas to start out. And that's been great. You know, it really has been. We kind of figured out that that whole joint venture I guess approach with real estate leaders was something that we were kind of onto, if you will. They liked it. We knew that after COVID, there weren't a lot of people going back into the office, the traditional real estate office. And we knew that there was obviously some sore points there, definitely, because the lease didn't go down just because your agent stopped coming in. Yeah. So you got to manage that, that expense. And one of the ways we've kind of, we're hoping to offset that was by, by doing some joint ventures the right way and allowing these leaders and agency owners to, you know, create equity and therefore revenue in ways that things they already had to do every single day. But, uh, it turned out to work really well for us. You know, we, then we kind of became partners in elite title, which is a standalone and then under elite, we've done a lot of joint ventures since. So. Yeah, it's all been pretty great.

So yeah, when you were back at Keller Williams, when you first came in and Integrity Title and that joint venture, that was obviously your goal to get into these real estate offices, right? Because it's the one-stop shop type thing. And that seemed to be your goal, I would say, correct?

Yeah, I mean, for sure. The goal was, quite frankly, was to create a revenue source for agency owners and potentially even those that had and were top producers within the agencies and allow them to purchase into the model that we had. And the long story short is it's worked out really well. The goal was to get closer to the agents, create top-notch service for them. As you know, we were in the Keller Williams St. Louis office for quite a long time, but that was not a joint venture. We had done that under an MSA kind of model back in the day, but we were in all of them at that point. And then that leadership kinda changed over the years, and so we're in some of them now and some not, and that's just the way life works. But yeah, the ultimate goal, like you said, was to create value for, obviously, you guys inside the agency, convenience, and then top-level service to do that, and I think we were pretty successful at it.

Yeah, I would agree. as a real estate team that closes pretty much all of our transactions at Integrity Title. I say we rarely have to reach out for anything. Every paperwork, every signature, everything's always taken care of. And I always say it's a true testament to you and your partner. and everybody in the leadership and how long some of your employees and some of these people that work for you have been around. Like that says a lot that you treat them with basically the same respect that you would treat yourself.

Yeah, you nailed it. I mean, quite honestly, we say it all the time, but in our business especially, we are literally only as good as the team that we have. And we have some that have been with us since, you know, for 25 years. And others that, I mean, every day I get, you know, we kind of, we have someone that monitors that for us and then they're putting stuff on Facebook and things like that, you know, happy, whatever. But it's, it always dumbfounds me when you say, hey, happy 15th, happy 10th, happy 8th, happy, you know, 20th. And you're like, I've been working with that person that long. But it's huge for us because I don't know of a lot of other companies that can say that. And we've always put employees first. And I know like anytime you get on one of these, it's almost cliche because everybody says that. We really do. I mean, from the day one when we hire you, we tell you, we're not micromanaging you. This is your job. You do it right. We're going to stay out of your hair. You just make sure that if you've got to go to your son or daughter's baseball game at 3 o'clock on a Friday, that your work's taken care of, or somebody's watching your email for you, and go do your family stuff. That's what's most important, and we've always been huge testaments to that. We've done tons and tons of things for our employees over the years. Honestly, I know it sounds dumb, but I don't even like saying employees. They're our team. They're just like us. We all do the same things. We all get the job done together. That's all that really matters at the end of the day. Like you said, it proves into our clients to see and realize that. the teams aren't there. I mean, you guys, yeah, I mean, you may like me and we may play golf and we may have client outings together, things like that. But at the end of the day, it's our team that keeps you with integrity and keeps you with a leader, keeps you with any of our other companies because that's who you talk to every day. That's who you sign up. That's the last touch your clients get when they close something. We've always tried to really procreate that in the organizations that This is a lot of times the biggest transaction of these respective buyer sellers lives. And now people tend to do it more frequently. But back when you're talking about our parents' age and stuff like that, they might only buy the house once. They might live in that house like mine. They bought that house and they lived in that house and they still live in that house. their whole lives. So that transaction comes up, it's a huge deal to them. There's anxiety, there's all kinds of remorse about the house I raised my kids in. You got to show that compassion. I think we really have tried to do a good job with that too, knowing it's not just a transaction, it's actually a really big deal to our clients.

Yeah. And going back to allowing your I'm not going to say employees because we didn't like that word, but your team, I have noticed that firsthand, how you do let individuals have a schedule to basically do what they want as long as they get their work done. And that's truly inspiring because obviously that's a reason why people stick around. Not only if it's a great company or great leaders, that's why people stick around, but also to have the flexibility and to be able to enjoy your life and to be able to have that work-life integration. Um, is, is truly a testament to you. So that's, that's awesome. And, uh, going forward, like in the title business, what do you, like, what do you see changing the most in terms of, as you know, some of these new forms roll out and gnar and this lawsuit and whatnot. Now, now there's going to be different conscious, different stuff on contracts. So how do you keep up with that side of the business?

That's why, you know, our partners are lawyers. I don't play one on TV at all because I get in trouble when I do. They keep us, but a lot of times that's our underwriting team. Your underwriting are a big deal. They obviously send out, sorry, I'm getting a phone call coming in here. They obviously are a big deal in making sure that we're compliant. They send us various documents. They send us, you know, bulletins and things all the time. But a lot of that really is just Bruce and Dan and some of the attorneys that we work with to make sure that they're on top of it. I think we try to stay on top of it as well. But you both and I both know that a lot of the legalese stuff that comes down that works in behind the scenes that we got to make sure we're compliant with and therefore you are because our real job is to protect you and your clients. I mean, that's I always tell people we're kind of a referee in this game. You know, I want to make sure that the lender's playing nice, the agents are playing nice, and then all the people in the back that we have to get and gather information from are doing their jobs on time. So that's really what a lot of what we do is just to coordinate all of those things because we both know that that's become monumentally more challenging than it was in the past. There's a lot more I's to be dotted and T's to be crossed. And so where do I see the market going? I don't see that getting any easier, I'll tell you that. The software that we have to comply with and the expenses that we have to pay in order to make sure that we are compliant. It's, it's getting more expensive every year and just like everything is for you guys I don't mean to say like woe is me on this but as we evolve. I think one of the big deals for you and me and anybody that's a local, you know, a local presence in our, in our respective market is, and it sounds really hokey, but it's to stay together. You know, I keep, I keep hearing agents and, you know, I talked about this a couple of weeks ago at lunch, I think is you hear agents complain about how Missouri's behind. We're so behind, you know, what they're doing. You don't have to show up to the closing anymore. I don't have to be there. And it just closes and I make $500,000, you know, like, yeah, I know that sounds really cool, but be careful what you wish for. Because at the end of the day, those people come in and start mowing your lawn, right? You're, you know, the Zillow leads and all that stuff. And I know that's a necessary evil for a lot of people. And I respect that. But we've all figured out and proven that you're just giving them the keys to the kingdom. And so we have to be real careful in sticking together. And what I mean by that is use your local lender, use your local realtor, use your local insurance provider, not somebody online, not that there's anything wrong with that, but there kind of is something wrong with that, right? Because if I don't have Blake that knows the town that he's showing me houses in, or his team or his father or whoever else that's been doing this a long time, Um, good luck man, you know, you're gonna try to buy a house sight unseen from a red fin or whatever online Use an online lender get your online insurance and you're just hoping that you got the right deal And by the way, you could even sometimes use an online title company. How do you think that affects our economy? You know, these people, you guys support ball teams, you guys supported ball teams and have including your own. We do too. Like all of that tax money stays in town for us. And that is a big deal. You know, your real estate agents work really hard now more than ever. I know this sounds like a plug for Blake guys, but it's not, it's, it's, it's truly. The amount of work that these guys are doing now, you have to be a quasi attorney to review contracts at the end of a duration that when the contracts are due, you got 20 different offers with escalation clauses and all kinds of fun little caveats I put in and try to make theirs float to the top. It's hard. And if you don't have a good advocate in your corner, I don't know how you do it. I mean, you just hope I got a great deal, I guess. I hope the house smells nice when I walk in and the foundation is not falling down because I bought it online. I don't know. I really don't. But I know this is a tangent, Blake. Sorry, but I know it's very important for us to stick together. And that is a really important fact because you know me, I know how you work. We work well together. We know how you like your clients to be handled. We know where you guys work and sleep and play. And we all do the same thing. And I just think it's really important that we all support each other in that fashion. I don't care if it's me. but somebody that's local and that can do the job with you here in the trenches and make sure that your clients are taken care of because ultimately that can lead to a lot of demise in our respective market. You start buying a lot of things that aren't up to par and don't have any check and balance to do it and I think it's a bad idea.

Yeah, no, I would agree with that. And I've been pushing the whole unity thing that as realtors and as title of businesses or lending industries, we are all in the same process together with the same goal in mind. And there's enough to go around, but I think we do try to close ourselves off to the competition when, in fact, we should be unifying each other and coming together for a greater cause, like you're saying. And I do appreciate you saying that, how much it does take in terms of going through contracts. And like you say, these contracts, these forms are written by attorneys. So for an attorney to write it, we have to understand what an attorney is trying to tell us on these forms. So it is hard. And as a title company, you then have to take these forms and understand them yourself. And the attorney has to understand them from their point of view and then advise your company or your title ventures, how to do things. And that is what is interesting to me is that you do have different lawyers that say different things in the title industry. And I'm not sure if, you know, for the most part, it's pretty standard, but there are certain, I guess you would say as your underwriting processes, and it's probably similar to the loan, that certain title companies will allow some things to fly more so than others. Is that true?

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's, so we run into that stuff every day. For instance, somebody will say, well, well, you know, this other title company said that, that they would, you know, insure over a giant, you know, retaining wall that's six feet onto the neighbor's property. And I always say, I mean, great, I bet I guarantee you their underwriter doesn't know about it. They may be accepting that responsibility in their own right, but there's no way that I can go to my underwriter and say, hey, there's a 10 foot retaining wall that runs the entire length of the property that's six feet over into the neighbors. Are you cool with that? Like, of course not, like there's no, it's impossible. So I was told to be careful of the risks that your individual title agent is taking on, because that might be $150,000 claim down the road. And, and which time they will not have any help from their underwriters. So that means they're going to have to eat it and they're not going to be able to give it to their, you know, policy because, you know, policy can say. I mean, that's gross negligence. You knew better than that. You can't tell us that in good conscience, you thought it was okay to insure over that. You just took a gamble. And so then it's going to get kicked back. So there's things like that that are definitely important. Like you mentioned, some title companies are willing to do it. Some maybe are a little bit more aggressive about the way they handle their business, and that's fine. Maybe it probably works fine for them in certain instances. I don't know, but we tend to be very upfront and honest and educate your client, you being our client, or you guys, or even directly to them and say, look, it's not a good idea to even ask for that. because you're going to have to sell that sooner or later or they're going to go in and somebody else is going to buy that house next door and they're going to realize you're encroaching onto their yard and they're not going to be happy with that at all. And guess what? It's on you. You're going to have to get that fixed and it's not going to be cheap. So, you know, try to do things on the straight and narrow. I know nobody tries to break the rules or anything like that. Sometimes it's just a matter of why I asked this one and they said, okay. And this one said, no, help me understand why. And usually that really gets out in front of it and people are fine with it once you explain the reasoning behind it.

Yeah. And obviously you're, when we're referring to this type of stuff, we bring up doing a survey, how crucial we always say to get a full survey of your property. So that way your title company can fully insure it. But also what I noticed when, yeah, we do get these surveys and your company processes them, we get these emails and I don't I don't have to think a whole lot about it because these emails are so in-depth from your processors that say, hey, Blake, is buyer willing to take exception of XYZ? And so it's all broken down into very layman's terms. So then I can also then transfer it to my client in a very easy manner to either say, hey, we got to take this action or put them at ease and say everything is perfectly fine. And that's one big thing that I tell people with integrity title is that you're not gonna let anything fly, which in the end is going to protect the consumer, aka the buyer or the seller.

100%. I mean, that's really our job, right? I mean, that's honestly, that is basically our job is we are here to protect, you know, we are, we are an insurance policy that you only buy once. And it lasts the entire duration that you own that house. There's not very many that are like that and, and our, you know, respective wives. So at the end of the day, that's a huge deal for us is to protecting you, protecting your reputation with your client, because if you let something slide and, and, or get something that's approved and it turns out that it shouldn't have been, guess who they're going to blame you. Because you're usually the one referring us, let's be honest. Most consumers aren't super familiar with what title insurance is, let alone companies that provide it. So when you guys give two or three options and explain that we use this one most of the time, but there's others and you can use whomever you want, they'll definitely go to the one that you use because they know you have a good reputation and you also have a good relationship. So, yeah, the whole point of art, it's insurance. It's there to protect people. And if you don't do it right, the protection is only as good as the paper it's written on, right? But if you do it right, then it lasts the entire duration that you're on that home and things happen. There are things that we can't even see when we do a search. They're not available. And all of a sudden you realize that Amarin has an easement to go through where you just built your pool, but it didn't show up somehow on a run that we did. Let's just say, I mean, it's a bad example, but it could happen. We're on the hook for it. And that's a huge expense, right? I mean, that's a big, big deal. It might mean you move out of that house into a new one, and that's going to have to be covered by us. So it can be a really big deal. And there's things that we're only as good as the search and the information that we can get our hands on. If something wasn't available or wasn't recorded yet, and we didn't see it, that's not your client's fault. It's really not our fault. But unfortunately, it's going to be our responsibility to cover it one way or the other.

Yeah, that's it. And your in-depth research and analysis in that stuff, it's pretty cool. Sometimes I get to learn myself. There was a deal we just had recently where you all had to figure out there was some type of an easement running through and it ended up being an old like Norfolk Southern Railroad track out in West County that was running through the middle of a house. And luckily, it was explained that, hey, this no longer is in effect. They're not going to come and put a railroad track in the middle of your house anymore or whatnot. And so some people don't even realize that some of these easements don't might not even or not even like valid per se. Yeah.

So statute of limitation might have worn out, whatever the case may be. And that's the reason because we have three corporate attorneys. You guys get a lot of times somebody's eyes and attorney's eyes have been on that before it ever shows up to you or your client. And like you mentioned, one of the things we've always pushed is that when you are sending out a commitment, highlight things in the body of the email, because let's face it, I mean, A lot of agents have never been through like a title one on one class so they don't even understand what that is. And that's not belittling anyone I mean that's just something that they think is outside of their lane. It's important, but if we highlight these three things are going to need to be taken care of this is schedule a the schedule be. This one's going to hold up closing, but we're going to work on or this one's going to hold up closing, we need your help. That's kind of how we've always tried to do so that you know you guys are on the fly, you're in the car, you're getting this stuff on your phones, you know, it's easy to miss something if it's not in the body you don't have to open up a PDF that's 15 pages long. Um, so we've always tried to be good about that too. So that you guys know, like you mentioned earlier, kind of, Hey, I got an idea now what it's going to take, or, Hey man, this thing's good to go. All they got to do is get some subdivision information and a couple of tax things. And we're good to go. Otherwise it could be, Hey, we're going to need to get these three things released. We're going to work on it. Like I said, but we might need your homeowner to sign off on it because obviously they're not going to just let my client or my team go in and have access to your information unless they let us.

Yeah, you're exactly right. And going back to you talking about how it's only going to get more complex, I sit here and go, I know when I go to Integrity Title that I don't have to really worry about anything because I know if something comes up, I'm going to know about it. If something doesn't need to be told to me and it needs to be fixed, it's just going to be fixed. And that's what's great about it. And I show up to Close and I know that everything's fine, it's going to be funded, whether, you know, it doesn't even matter who's on that file. I, I, I trust everybody that you have. And, and that's a big thing because it's trust that I tell people now, because people are now asking me about title companies. And I had never heard that before. And when I told you that for the first time at lunch, you were kind of like, well, I didn't realize that, that people are now asking me about title fees. And I'm like, man, I had not. been ever been asked that. And I don't know if it's the internet or whatnot, but title work is difficult. Title work is not fun. So I have never questioned the price of title work as a buyer or a seller because I just know the extent of what goes into it. So clearly, if somebody is going to but a ginormous chunk of change off your title work, something's going to slip through the cracks.

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, we all basically pay the same fees that we paid through to our underwriters. Those those rates are filed with the state. Anybody can go look at them, but they're all obviously they're all fairly in parity. So the rest of it is just what do we charge for all the work we do? And that's the search, the examination. I mean, all the way from order entry, you've got to pay somebody to do that. Then those orders don't enter themselves. Um all the technology that goes behind it and and that's the part that gets more and more technical And expensive just like inflation has affected you guys with everything you have to do Um from fuel in your cars all the way down the line. Um, we're no different so That those the software that we have to use in order to comply the laws we have to you know adhere to the audits that we have to undergo through our our underwriters all cost time money and resources to do it and Those are much more complicated than they used to be. It's fine. That's what we're here for. But it is. And so having quality employees that have its experience, like just like it is with you or anybody else, experience matters. And it really does. You know, you could talk about block chaining, all of title work and and all that kind of stuff. And that sounds great. But we find things on title that have been closed on over the last 15 years and three refines that somebody else didn't catch every day. And it's just a matter of time. Somebody's going to catch it. And all of a sudden, somebody's going to have to pay the piper on that because it's going to have to be rectified before anybody that's insuring it anyway is going to allow it to close again. So that's why it's vital back to having a good quality company that stands behind their work and does it right because you go back to a a little bitty, whatever title company, and I don't, I don't mean anybody around here, but the little bitty title company that has three employees and no council, you know, that's on staff or ownership team. And they find out that this 10 year old easement was missed and you never got permission to ride over it from your underwriter. They're going to have to pay it. And guess what? They may not have the money to be able to pay it. And then it's going to be, trust me, I've heard about it several times, uh, more than I'd like to admit, cause I certainly don't wish that on anyone, but from other title companies that it is a huge deal. Because like I said, this might be literally a deal breaker that if you would have known about it, five, 10 years ago, you would never bought the house. So that's why it's important. Just back to your point.

Yeah. Things get things get torn down. That's and that's that's never good.

And we make mistakes, too. I mean, it's not like we're perfect, you know, but we stand behind our work.

Yeah, that's, and that's the, that's the satisfaction of when I know that I have a buyer that closed at integrity title and they call me. Two, three, four, five years from now. And they say, Hey, I want to sell my house. I know that. Okay. Everything on the title end leading up to them buying is perfectly fine. So only problems I have to worry about is while they've lived there, if they haven't created any, you know, liens, et cetera, and then, yeah, not much you can do about that part. Yeah. Not much you can do about that. But I know leading up to their purchase and now selling that everything title wise is correct. And that's a big part because people don't really realize it's such a boring part of real estate. People don't like to talk about it because it's boring. It's not flashy and it's not all like real estate like with TV shows. There's no title on HDTV. I'm probably not going to be on that.

Real life of integrity title show anytime soon. And I'm not the life of parties talking about title stuff. I'll tell you right now.

Yeah, the real life of integrity title. Yeah, we could start that one. But no, yeah, that's it. And obviously I could sit here and we'll have to catch up again and do this again and talk more about it. But the evolving in the industry, you've talked, and I know you guys are constantly evolving, like you say, with your team and the lawyers and all that. But in particular, the technology is what... And the software cost is what intrigues me the most, because that's something that it's hard to put a price tag on. And these people can just raise the software and keep creating it. Unless people, there's competition in that industry, right? Of creating this software. Otherwise it's expensive to carry.

Yeah. No doubt. I mean, there's only a handful of software providers that we would use that is literally our entire operating system for the search examination and processes and even CRM kind of things when it comes to the closers and how they are reminded to follow up. Because you've got to think about every one of these files is complicated. There's always nuances. I mean, every single one of them. I mean, I would flunk so bad trying to do the job. Because you gotta be so detail oriented. But luckily we have those checks and balances in place, right? Your processor helps the closer and the closers is always helped by someone that might fund for them or whatever the case may be. There's always a hierarchy that has to go in place. That's why I always, it makes me a little nervous sometimes when you hear about the way certain businesses run on a very, very skeletonous type, or they outsource everything to a company that does their search and exams for them that's out of the country. And I just feel like, yeah, I get it. I mean, it could definitely save you a lot of money, but I'd sure rather have the experienced people sitting in one of my offices and having their eyes and ears on this stuff because it makes a big, big difference. And software is no different. There is competition now, but it's all expensive. Because you get what you pay for, and we have to be compliant. So a lot of that for us has to become compliant with our underwriters. It has to be recognized by the underwriters that it is an approved software platform for them to use. You get it. Same stuff you guys have to deal with.

Yeah. And as a consumer, it's, you know, it's not the lender's name on the contract. It's not my name on the contract. It's not your name on the contract, even though we're a part of the con the transaction, it's the consumer's name that's on the contract and on the title and on the loan and all that paperwork. So if any of that gets dropped, I tell people. you're only as good as the people behind you and the support behind you. So I know, like I said, if there's an issue with integrity title, it gets solved. There's nothing to worry about. And that takes away a lot of stress at our job. And in the title industry, that's one thing with you guys. I would never ask for a discount on anything because I know how much work goes into that industry and how much margins are already slim because of technology and how expensive your overhead is when people think, well, it's just title, right? Well, no. Like you say, it's a lot more than just title. There's so much behind it. But Yeah, I appreciate you coming on here. And I just, I got to talk, you know, you're a father too, you know, you got that. There was one story that, you know, I wanted to talk about before I let you go, if you don't mind. And it was the thing about when you bought a, when you were younger and you, it stuck with me at lunch the other day, when you bought a boat back when you were younger. And you said, you know, I always was like, Hey, let's buy a boat. Let's be, let's be the guy I want to be, have the cool stuff. And I was always like that. Like I wanted to make the impact and be passionate and have the cool thing. And then you go, you woke up and realized, well, wait a minute. I got the boat. I'm paying for the boat. I'm paying for the gas. Everybody's having fun. I'm the guy that's got to drive the boat. I'm sober. And, and, and so you look back and you go, I really wasn't having fun. And I was, it was almost an imposter type syndrome and yeah. And that's something I think that we could talk about in the future, but if you don't mind giving a, giving a quick little talk about that, you know, what? Yeah. I mean,

Kind of what came down to it was, you know, you let your ego kind of guide you through some things and then everything else is kind of a letdown because the ego always sets you up to, well, if I have this, then this is going to happen. And if I have that, people are going to freaking think that's really cool. Yeah, and maybe they do. I don't know. But you become a dad, you become downstream, you realize some of the things you did had nothing to do with what you really liked. It was about what you hoped other people would perceive about the things that you were getting. And that was a big deal, kind of aha moment, as they say. For me, it was just realizing that there are certain things that I don't care about. I mean, I do like nice stuff, don't get me wrong, but having the big things so that you could be responsible for everybody on it, just so everybody knew it was yours. That wasn't really that fun. That was a lot of work, is what it really was. But I loved to entertain. Don't get me wrong, I didn't miss that part. Or I mean, I didn't mind that part. It was just like, yeah, some of the stuff needed to be put back in check and in line a little bit with reality and what really makes you and your family happy instead of trying to impress other people, I think is what we kind of latched onto for a minute there during that conversation.

Yeah, no, it totally is my slide keeps going off. But yeah, no, it is like the it's the external validation that I think we we always try to strive for. And, you know, I'm the same way I struggle with that. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get this cool thing so that that way, you know, Joe or Bill or Karen, they know that I got that. But when, in fact, it didn't align with my life at all, I didn't need it. And it was just unnecessary. So I have started to somewhat figure that out. And that story the other day that just really stuck with me listening to you say that because I kind of went down that path as well. But no, I really appreciate you coming on here, because like I said, we got a really good, really good friendship. You've known me since for a long time. I've known you for a long time. I would consider you a mentor just like some other people. And I appreciate you coming on here. So anything last you'd want to say in the title title industry for the for people listening?

You know, other than the fact that, you know, like anybody else, you know, as, as the market gets more and more crazy as we get closer to the election and things like that, you know, we're here to help. We appreciate you guys and treat every client as an individual, no matter how big the team is or how small the individual is. I believe we treat everybody the same. We would love to work with you more. We appreciate the Ellsner team for sure. We've known you a long time and your friendship is more important than the business side, but having both is even more awesome. Thanks for having me on the show and thinking of me to be on the show. Appreciate it.

Yeah. Thanks, Knox. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for those kind words. We'll always be closing. that integrity title as long as our buyers and sellers allow it, because obviously they get to choose, right? So we don't want to choose for them, but we will tell them and guide them the right way. So I appreciate you coming on. We'll have to do this again. Yeah, I look forward to it. Thanks for having me. All right, man. Keep in touch. All right. And let's elevate together.

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